RG 278 – Investing in Senior Living: Helping Investors & Seniors at The Same Time with Loe Hornbuckle
This week, we tackle a particularly interesting field of real estate that we don’t often get to talk about: senior housing. Join Loe Hornbuckle and me as we talk about the different types of senior living, innovating senior care, and many other aspects of senior living real estate.
Loe Hornbuckle is the CEO of Sage Oak Assisted Living and Memory Care and a co-founder of GoodHorn Capital, a real estate investment firm that helps investors achieve financial freedom and create long-term value by owning and repositioning real estate. He is passionate about improving the living experience of residents in assisted living facilities by providing quality care and leveraging the advantages of scale.
For this episode, Loe walks us through the different types of senior living facilities, their scaling strategies for these facilities, the operational side of senior living management, and the many different ways Loe and Goodhorn Capital helps improve the lives of the elderly.
Senior living is composed of many different types; memory care, assisted living, skilled nursing facilities, etc.
Big senior living facilities are not always the best places to receive elderly care.
Being present is one of the best ways to optimize operations and maintain control.
- Systematizing operations is not always the best way to prevent abuse in senior facilities—but hiring good quality people is.
Be Bold, Be Brave and Go Give Life a Crack!
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Reed Goossens (00:00):
Good. Hey guys. Now, before we dive into today’s show, I want you to let you know that some of you may be aware that over the past eight years, I have built a substantial multifamily real estate portfolio here in the us worth over half a billion dollars. And in that time, my passive investors have received fantastic double-digit returns. And now you too can invest directly into my deals for as little as $50,000. So if you’re an interested investor, head over to [inaudible] dot com to find out more that’s Reed goossens.com. Now back into the show,
Loe Hornbuckle (00:41):
I think a lot of people in operations today, they’re trying to, um, they’re trying to suck the creativity out of our business. Um, you know, the bass, if, you know, look, if you hired 20 good property managers, multi-family, they’d figure it out. It’s not that complicated. You know, it’s, it’s really not, but everybody has their own way of doing things and their proprietary systems and the way they train people, you can suck the talent out of people. Um, now if you’ve got somebody with a really strong why who’s taking care of seniors, uh, you know, on a remote market, you know, I can give him a million checklists, um, that’s not going to be effective. So what you gotta do is you gotta hire good people that have the right Y that are hard workers, that, that are mission-focused, then you gotta get out of their way. Um, and, and when, when they need you out of their way, and then you gotta support them when they need that.
Speaker 4 (01:39):
Welcome to investing in the US a podcast for real estate investors, business owners, and aspiring entrepreneurs looking to break into the US market join Reed As he interviews go getters risk-takers and the best in the business about their journey towards financial freedom and the sheer joy of creating something from nothing
Reed Goossens (02:00):
Good day. A ladies and gentlemen, and welcome to another cracking edition of investing in the US podcast from Los Angeles. I’m your host, Reed Goossens good as always every with us on the show. Now, I’m glad that you’ve all tuned into learn from my incredible guests and each and every one of them are the cream of the crop here in the United States. When it comes to real estate, investing, business, investing, and entrepreneurship, each show, I try and tease out their incredible stories of how they have successfully created the businesses here in the US how they’ve created financial freedom, massive amounts of cashflow, and ultimately create extraordinary lives for themselves and their families life by design. As I like to say, hopefully these guests will inspire all of my cracking listeners, which are you guys to get off the couch and go and take massive amounts of action.
Reed Goossens (02:46):
If these guys can do it. So can you now, as you know, I’m all about sharing the knowledge with my loyal listeners, which is you guys, and there’s absolutely no BS on this show, just straight into the nuts and bolts. Now, if you do like to show the easiest way to give back is to give us a review on iTunes, and you can follow me on Facebook and Twitter by searching at Reed Goossens. You can find the show wherever you podcast on iTunes, SoundCloud, Stitcher, and Google play, but you can also find these episodes up on my YouTube channel. So head over to Reed goossens.com, click on the video link, and it will take you to the video recordings of these podcasts. You can see my ugly mug, but the beautiful faces of my guests each and every week. All right, enough of me let’s get cracking and into today’s show
Speaker 2 (03:32):
Reed Goossens (03:33):
Jenny’s show, or the pleasure of speaking with Loe Hornbuckle Mo is the founder of good horn capital, a real estate investment company that focuses on developing and investing in senior living and memory care lo is passionate about investing because it’s a way to help so many people in need, particularly in the senior housing living space. He’s also on a mission to help as many people as he can whilst helping other investors on their path towards financial success. I’m really pumped and excited to have him on the show today to share his incredible insights and knowledge, but nothing. I mean, let’s get him out of here. Hello. Welcome to the show. Hey,
Loe Hornbuckle (04:06):
Oh man, you hit me with a good day. This is my dream come true. Really? Um, first off, you’re your legend. So I’m happy to be able to show second of all, I get the distinct pleasure and you have to make sure that you refer to I last name because I want to hear the Aussie accent. Say Hornbuckle over and over again.
Reed Goossens (04:23):
[inaudible] Mr. [inaudible] so good.
Loe Hornbuckle (04:28):
I’m excited to be here. I really am. I’ll always
Reed Goossens (04:30):
Give you, I was giving you a little bit of crap in the agreement before we get started. You know, honestly, we could be from your name could be from dance and Abby, you know, say you could, if you had an accent, you could tell someone that you a pot of royalty, but I don’t know if you’ve ever, if you ever used that lawn, pick up a go before
Loe Hornbuckle (04:45):
Like a redneck, uh, uh, Benjamin cumber snatch or whatever. That’s what I am. So I’m Dr. Strange.
Reed Goossens (04:54):
No, my right. I love it. I love it. Well, with that being said, let’s dive into the show, rewind the clock. And I asked you so all my, all my, all my guests for 1 o’clock and tell me how you made your first ever dollar as a kid, because that last name, and then I hear the Mississippi Louisiana accent. It’s gonna, it’s gonna, there’s gonna be some interesting upbringings that,
Loe Hornbuckle (05:12):
Yeah. So, um, outside of an allowance, which your parents just give you, which I’m not really sure that you earn, I guess some households do. Um, I remember being five years old and the neighbor across the way was 10 and he was incredibly unathletic. Uh, but he thought of himself as an athlete. And the first money I ever earned outside of allowance was we gambled on basketball and I was five years old and he didn’t have any money. So I had a tab, right? So I won $30, $5 a game. And I went home and tell my dad that I won $30. And I got in a lot of trouble. He had to pay me. My dad was all about honor, but I got grounded collected the money. So
Reed Goossens (05:53):
On what premise were you betting on basketball at five? Like horse,
Loe Hornbuckle (05:58):
Like horse, but we both sucked. And so it was just like, you know, occasionally making a layup was going to probably be a winner. You know, we were shooting on a regulation goal of the regulation basketball, and, you know, we were, we were terrible. It was just, I didn’t choke on, I try to be a person that doesn’t choke on money, you know? And so, and sometimes a business you’ve see these people and, you know, playing pool or poker or golf or whatever. Some people just when the money starts to sink in and they just sort of, the pressure gets to them. So even as a kid, I’m like, all right, I’m going to be a killer when it comes to money on the line.
Reed Goossens (06:35):
My, this that’s a very interesting, I’m probably the most creative I’ve had on the show so far. I got a lot of people saying lemonade stands and mowing lawns. And I said, sure, you’re not, don’t, don’t tell me about like, God mowing lawns story. That that’s a lot more interesting. So, so it’s a well done. Yeah, exactly. But walk us through the journey of, of your background. Um, what jobs you went to school you didn’t just fall into real estate, or maybe you did, but what, what, what is the low Hornbuckle story?
Loe Hornbuckle (07:07):
Well, I dropped out of college despite being on a really fancy scholarship, uh, because, uh, I was just gonna take some time off and, um, you know, I think sometimes, uh, you know, when, especially in America, because we don’t like go on vacations, we just like go straight into everything. And I think you always kind of need that decompression time. So I went straight into high school and college and just want to take a break. And I had a friend that was looking for a job and, uh, I went and joined him at an interview at a car dealership. And then I dropped out of college. Um, because I just, it was that experience. Um, back then I was very money focused. Its probably the reason why I feel like I’m probably a little bit more purpose driven now because I spent a whole, I had my entire, you know, 19 to like 30 years old was just like, you know, making money.
Loe Hornbuckle (07:53):
And, uh, I remember the first month that I was in the car dealership, I was 19 years old. I was in a terrible town and I was selling, uh, Mitsubishi’s uh, fortunately, uh, fast and the furious had just come out. So, you know, we had a little something going on with that eclipse. Thank you. A Van diesel, Paul Walker, rest in peace. And, um, so I remember I made $6,000 the first month I sold cars and my mother, um, who was a pharmacist and had been a fairly high ranking executive in a hospital made $7,000 a month. And I’m like, mom, you’ve been here in your career for 20 years. And I’ve been doing, I’m selling Mitsubishi’s and Shreveport, you know, and I made almost as much as you, so why would I go to college? I think a lot of people were very upset about that and my family, but, you know, it, it was what it was.
Loe Hornbuckle (08:39):
And, and then, and there was a point where my parents would borrow money from me. And that was kind of a how you, like, you knew, okay, well obviously, you know, you’re not happy, but you’re getting loans, so it must be doing something right. Uh, and so that was kind of the, uh, that was kind of the joke. And then really, um, you know, I was in the car dealership for a long time, mostly in the finance side of things. And that was, uh, a really good period of time because you learn about underwriting, you learn about risk and reward. Um, you also, uh, in the finance department, the skill that, that I think really served me well was I was never, I was an okay sales person. I was, I was a pretty good, closer, but, but I really did better than just about anybody else is you had to have relationships with banks.
Loe Hornbuckle (09:21):
And so you’d have somebody come on the lot and maybe they were, they were, you know, someone politically important or they were the owners, you know, a dog Walker, or they were just somebody you just needed to put a deal together some way somehow. And so, you know, most car transactions run off credit, you know, vast, vast majority of people put down a percentage and then finance the rest. And so if you can’t get financing, you often don’t have a car deal. Uh, you know, so, uh, my job was to get the deals done that needed to get done. And so in order to do that, um, you have to be persuasive. You have to have credibility because here’s the thing you can get one deal done. But if you, if you shoot the moon and you go too far, then that buyer’s never going to help you again, right.
Loe Hornbuckle (10:00):
Especially if that deal has problems down the road. And so you have to really go to the well over and over and over again. And if you think about how that works with the business that I’m in, or with investors, you really, it’s a relationship that you have to maintain at all times. And so I think that’s probably the one skill that really above all others kind of really set me apart in our business. We call it a rehashing where you, you rehash the deal. Um, and so those types of relationships were very natural to me. Um, and so I always have started to gravitate toward relationships that are not transactional, but that are ongoing. Um, and if you think about partnerships, you think about investors, you think about all those things, those are all relationships, not really transactions. So I learned a lot from that.
Loe Hornbuckle (10:41):
And then, um, my dad got very sick, uh, and when my dad got very sick, um, I plan to travel the world. Uh, and I, I broke it off and I came home early. He wanted me to go. He basically told me he wanted me to go and, and, uh, I broke it off, came back early and he passed away and he passed away under really terrible circumstances, so much so that I spent the better part of a year trying to decide if I wanted to Sue the hospice company and right around the time the statute of limitations ran out. Um, I kind of stumbled into this assisted living, uh, opportunity. Um, now I’ve been doing real estate before. I know the question was about real estate. I started, I started doing real estate on the side, so I’d run the dealership during the day.
Loe Hornbuckle (11:21):
And then I would go home, go home. And I would lease units to people at night. So at one point out about a hundred doors in Shreveport Louisiana, and the correct number of doors to own and Shreveport Louisiana is zero, but at a hundred. And, uh, you know, I was doing that while I was doing the, uh, the dealership on the side. And then, so when the assisted living thing came up, it kind of felt like a culmination of all the things that I had done. Relationship-based, you know, I understood how to at least remodel a house and that wasn’t too intimidating for me. And so that started me on the assisted living and memory care journey. So it’s very strange to go from selling extended on Hondas and then 18 months later to be taken care of someone with dementia. Very strange.
Reed Goossens (11:57):
Yeah, no, and my, my, my, my son’s the, uh, uh, condolences to, uh, losing a parent is, is always Ralph. I lost my mom a couple of years back. Um, I was living here in the states, you know, same thing you have, you had a guilt ride of, do you want to keep following your dreams or should you go back and, and be, uh, be of service and, um, helped. So definitely resonates with me. And I’m sure your dad’s looking down on you really, really proud about now.
Loe Hornbuckle (12:22):
I was lucky. I mean, I got to ask him, you know, what does he want me to do? You know, it’s not everybody gets that chance, you know, in his credit he’s like, look, man, I want you to go when you have a chance to do this thing. And you know, it didn’t, it would, the trip wasn’t as long, it wouldn’t go to all of us. We wanted to. And it actually, it’s funny, full circle. I went to Australia for six weeks, um, which is great. I love Australia. So, um, part of the reason why I agreed to do the show
Reed Goossens (12:46):
Because of me, cause my accent, that’s it. That’s the only reason you agree to do this show, right?
Loe Hornbuckle (12:53):
Reed Goossens (12:54):
I had done not even, not even, no, no, I’m not your girl, um, want to know about, you know, assisted living and, you know, we all have, I, I had grant, I had grandparents supposedly passed away, but even in strata, you know, assisted living is such a big thing. Everyone’s gonna retire and it’s gonna need to be taken care of how do you go about finding it? Because I know what I sort of, from an outsider’s point of view, I wouldn’t even, I know if I’m multifamily, I assume the same brokers or very similar brokers are in the assisted living space, but, but how do you go about finding those deals? First question, the second question would be, how do you like looking at underwriting United speak, speak about underwriting. And we talk a lot about, on the show about underwriting, but I’m sure it’s completely different kettle of fish.
Loe Hornbuckle (13:39):
Yeah. So I mean, great question. Um, you know, I’m not really, um, I’m not really in the traditional assisted living and memory care space. I think that kind of understand is, um, we’re trying to change the way a long-term care is delivered. And so what we’ve done is we’ve taken, when I say assisted living people picture a thing, and that’s usually like three or four stories and you know, or the picture of nursing home and maybe they, they picture a certain type of smell and a picture of cafeteria. They picture these types of things. Um, it doesn’t have to be that way. And so what we’ve done is we actually build, um, assisted living and memory care. And so really our deal flow is land. Um, and you know, uh, it’s funny though, the first few projects I did, I got invited to be a part of, um, because someone had some land.
Loe Hornbuckle (14:20):
And so oftentimes my initial business was someone had some land and they don’t know what to do with it. So they called me. Um, now I’ve reached a point in my career where we actually are looking at analytics to determine where supply demand and balances exists. Um, in certain geographic areas because of my business is so operationally intensive and we are the operations company. Um, we really want to keep a very tight geographic timeline. So I was very unblessed in my real estate career to be born in Shreveport, Louisiana. Right. Cause you know, if you most will start off where they’re from, um, and where I was from was a terrible economy. However, I got to Texas as fast as I could. And as you know, um, you know, Dallas, Texas, these stories are don’t need to be retold on the show. And so there’s a lot, there’s just an incredible amount of opportunity in, in Dallas for the things that we typed to do.
Loe Hornbuckle (15:12):
We’re really focused on secondary and tertiary markets. Dallas is a city it’s very overbuilt. Um, it’s often in the top two or three lists of overbuilding assisted living and memory care, uh, cities. But, um, there’s a lot of others, a lot of, uh, suburbs of Dallas. There’s a lot of towns that maybe don’t make it on people’s radar in a board room in New York. And so we focus on that. So we’re doing a project in ven, which about four minutes out of town. And we also have, uh, you know, right now we’re focused on those secondary and tertiary markets, uh, Dallas, where the supply demand imbalances. So we need about six acres or so to do we want to do as full by a little bit more. But so our deal flow really is on the land side. Um, and we’re not a big hurry.
Loe Hornbuckle (15:51):
We’re trying to build good, good quality products. And so our goal really starting next year is to start one Sage Oak. So operation company is called Sage Sage Oak assisted living and memory care. Good horn is sort of the capital raising arm that support Sage Oak and other projects. So our goal is start one a year, and those are generally to be 80 to a 100 beds, you know, so decades from now, we’ll look up and we’ll have, you know, 1000 to 2000 beds. And, uh, you know, I got to think we’re going to be more of like a merger than an acquisition. Um, because I think what’s going to happen is our model has different, different types of buildings. Instead of building an 80 bed facility, we’ll build five 16 bed facilities that are small, that are boutique they’re intimate. They feel like a home as opposed to a facility.
Loe Hornbuckle (16:34):
And, and that has a lot of advantages to it. Um, COVID really proved that smaller, uh, housing is better, right? Because you got 200 people living with you, then you have 200 sets of visitors and 200 sets of vendors and 200 sets of now you have infect control issues. Whereas if you have say, um, you know, 10, a hot 10, 16 bed facilities, it’s almost the same number of people, but now you have 10 front doors you have, you know, so you can really, you can silo risk. Um, you can also create much more personal experiences. Um, another example of that is, let’s say you’ve got five 16, but houses have total of 80 beds. We’ll have five people cooking for 16. So you’ve got your chefs cooking for 16, they’ll have one chef cooking for 80. Now I ask any chef, what’s easier to do cook for 60 cook for 16 or cook for 80.
Loe Hornbuckle (17:23):
Right? And so it, there’s just a lot of other advantages to these smaller boutique settings. And so we’re building a campus with them. So basically our entire business model is acquiring six, 10 acres and building a campus. We don’t have a single set of stairs or elevators in the, of our facilities. Uh, the exception is our admin building, which is not for resonance, but, um, you know, we, we built single story purpose-built houses that are designed for 16 people, as opposed to these big, big, big impersonal campuses with their long hallways and cafeteria style that interesting.
Reed Goossens (17:54):
And do you, do you want to just define for the listeners the difference between senior living and memory care and anything else, anything that I’ve missed about?
Loe Hornbuckle (18:04):
Yeah, so, yeah, that’s a great question. I mean, I think, you know, as an example, what I always say is I was doing a deal one time and investors should be a wall street journal are all about something going on in senior living. Um, and so they were nervous. They invested in this project. I’m like, oh, the wall street journal says this. So senior living is an all encompassing term. So sort of similar to how we talk about how it doesn’t make sense to talk about real estate as an asset, right? Because real estate is local. It’s also, you could have a market where apartments are amazing, but storage isn’t. You could have a market where medical office is doing really well, but assisted living is not. So real estate is not an asset class. It’s a set of asset classes, senior living or senior housing is a set of asset classes.
Loe Hornbuckle (18:44):
The simplest way to think about it is, think about healthcare on one side and hospitality on the other. So, uh, since your show is obviously got a lot of apartment investors on there, um, active adult, independent living, those are kind of similar categories. Those are basically apartments that don’t deliver any care that have a concierge or amenities geared toward older populations are generally age restricted, 55, 62 years old, things like that. So that’s on the hospitality side, on the very other end of the spectrum. You have, uh, housing that’s based around medical need, like a skilled nursing facility. We also call those sniffs SNF skilled nursing facility. So kind of in the middle is assisted living and memory care. So assisted living folks, um, have usually mobility needs and they need help with what’s called activities of daily living also known as ADL’s. So they need help with grooming, piloting, um, meal, service, medications, uh, activities, psychosocial stimulation, um, and then memory care.
Loe Hornbuckle (19:46):
You can have all those things, but, um, I think a good definition for someone that should be a memory care is they can’t be their own advocate, whether because they can no longer form new memories, it’s really memory care is kind of a terrible term. It really should be Jamaica dementia care, because there are, there’s a form of dementia where you have, you can form new memories, but you can’t control yourself. You have impulse control issues. And so generally to have access control, uh, in those buildings. So people can’t freely come and go, because if you can’t be your own advocate or you can’t control your impulses, then you don’t need to be, uh, unaccompanied in society. Um, so, um, those are kind of on the spectrum. So our particular type of business, we really are kind of more on the skilled nursing side of things.
Loe Hornbuckle (20:25):
So we take care of people that generally have greater needs and are less independent. Um, that’s not always true. There are tons of assisted living and memory care facilities that may cater to the more independent our model is built on need. So the vast majority of times someone moves with us, they have to move somewhere because you know where they are now isn’t working. And so, um, the other end of the spectrum, you know, um, the independent living side that you might think of, we think about senior housing. That’s more, uh, so as an example in my business, a typical sales process is two weeks. Meaning from when they call to move into a couple of weeks in independent living, it’s often two or three years, because this is a person that’s maybe they’d downsize or living in kind of a townhouse or a condo, or maybe they’re still in their, their, their house.
Loe Hornbuckle (21:10):
They live in 40 or 50 years and they ha and I friend, who’s a doctor, Dr. Bill Thomas has a concept called America is maybe true in Australia as well. Our houses are killing us because people have these three, 4,000 square feet, big mansions, and you have to maintain that. You’ve got to do the gutters, you’ve got to do this, mow the lawn, cleaning the house. And so most older people are basically dying to maintain their house. Know they’re slipping, they’re falling, they’re doing all those things. So there’s a comes a point when they go, Hey, I don’t want to do this anymore. I’m going to move into a smaller place in a two bedroom apartment or something, and I’m going to be around other people that I can, you know, and then over time, your, it gets kind of sad. Sometimes you lose social connections, your friends pass away, or something happens.
Loe Hornbuckle (21:49):
And so most of them are just sort of yearning to be around other people. And so they will often move in these Congress settings, which is what independent living and impact adult is all about. Um, so the other big difference would just be that in those situations, the resident, the tenant is often making the choice to move in. Whereas in assisted living and memory care or skilled nursing, it’s often the family that’s intervening on behalf of the other person, whether just because maybe it’s hard for them to get around. Maybe if they’re a part of the decision, they just don’t want to have someone that’s real, that’s in a wheelchair and just kind of take them all over the place. And maybe they’ll pair the search down and say, Hey dad, at a B3 facilities, I’m going to take you to them. You tell me which one you prefer. So it’s a very different thing. Senior living is really an all encompassing thing. So when you hear senior living, think about it, like you do the word real estate, it’s almost meaningless because they’re upstream, downstream providers. You can have independent living, gaining occupancy, and then you can have assisted living, remember care to losing occupancy. Uh, so the really more upstream downstream providers each other,
Reed Goossens (22:45):
Thank you for that. It’s very descriptive, um, piece of information that I think, I, I think back to my grandparents, my uncle, Omar and Omar, my Dutch heritage, and they lived in Prejean Springs, uh, which was an, a predominant kit. And it was, it was from a to Z rod. It had, it had the, the young guy, 55 years old. And I remember visiting them all the time and they had, it was like a, um, a quad. So they had two upstairs that could enter from the backside of the property, had two below. And they’ll essentially units as called units. And it was separated and it was maybe one or two single family houses there on this big God install. I courage. And then it’s sort of stepped up to the, you know, you’re in the manner. It means you were in the middle, the memory cap, but it had the lone balls and the haircuts and the, you know, games rooms and the TV nights and the swimming pools, like literally look like a multifamily, but for senior people.
Reed Goossens (23:41):
And, but also had that the entry point was a lot lower. So you could stay within the system all the way through is that, and again, I’m just talking from a personal point of view, what I’ve seen from a business guy. I’m like, this is a great decision. So does it, does does doing it the way you’re doing it with a smaller size have any, you know, not, I wouldn’t say, um, cons compared to being a bigger facility and having, you know, the, the more the funnel coming through that you can keep just continue to graduate as you get older.
Loe Hornbuckle (24:11):
Yeah. So what you’re describing, I fake, um, here in the states, we’d call a CCRC continuing care retirement community. And what that does is that’s basically designed to offer a full spectrum, so independent living to skilled nursing. So generally you’ll have independent living assisted living, memory care, skilled nursing, possibly a short-term skilled nursing, which we call a rehabilitation centers. That’s where you, like, you get hurt and you need to get stronger before you go back to housing model. Um, so yeah, that’s, that’s a common thing. So what we tried to do is I think it’s a good question. You’re, you’re, you’re totally correct. The larger, uh, has some advantages. The larger also has some youth disadvantages. So sort of similar to how I took a second to describe that in, in the, in the, in the care driven aspect. So if we set aside, uh, independent living for a second, it’s still kind of true there, but we’ll just set it aside for a second.
Loe Hornbuckle (25:01):
We’re focused on skilled nursing to assisted living and memory care kind of being, uh, the other option, um, really small settings. So you’re talking about the person that has one care home that has 10 people or 12 people is really good, however, it doesn’t scale. Um, and the reason why scaling matters, especially in our business is you’re not really forced to scale your rental portfolio, meaning you could have 10 houses and it’s probably not going to take you have 10 rental houses. It’s probably not going to take a lot out of you. You’re taking care of 10 people and you don’t have a staff. It’s going to suck the life out of the owner, because we see all these times where these mom and pop operators who have the biggest hearts imaginable, but they don’t understand business. And so they make themselves a single point of failure.
Loe Hornbuckle (25:47):
There’s also financing challenges. Um, you know, if I call JP Morgan chase right now and say, Hey, I’ve got this care home. I want to finance, what department are they going to send me to as a commercial? Is it residential that all these questions come up. So the other end of the spectrum, you have these big buildings. They often get terrible outcomes. They got a hundred yard hallways. You gotta, you gotta eat food with 80 or 90 other people. They don’t, they don’t have enough staff there that the building doesn’t make sense. You know, you spent this 50 years living in a home. Now you’re in this big place with people. You don’t know there’s many problems with both models. So fundamentally what we’ve tried to do is we try to combine those two models. And so, um, we still get the outcomes and the impact and the personal care that you would have in a small setting, because we’re building a campus of care homes.
Loe Hornbuckle (26:29):
We no longer really do new care home opportunities. We do campuses of care homes. We have all the advantages that come up scaling of a big building. Um, so we have transportation, we have an activities coordinator. We have the appropriate structure. So each campus can be a closed loop and run independently, maybe have a corporate office. Um, but we still get all the outcomes and all the great things that come with smaller environments financing is more on a larger institutional scale. Um, and so we really combined the two. So I really think our model of a planned care home campuses will, will be what comes next. I think that’s going to be what comes next. And you can continue that you could do a CCRC where you’d have small assisted living, small memory care, small cottages for independent, small cottages for skilled nursing, et cetera, et cetera.
Loe Hornbuckle (27:17):
Um, we’re just trying to move away from the sort of commoditize, you know, build these big, massive gleaming buildings, um, that are about the building and not about people, right? Um, and so that’s really why our business is unique. And the other thing that’s kind of funny and the business world, we talk all the time. Are you an introvert? Are you an extrovert? They never asked that question to seniors you. So what we do is we take somebody that that’s lived alone for their whole life and has no interest in eating with 80 people. And we stick them in this big place. And they’re just like, I just want to stay in my room and avoid people. Um, and it’s, it’s sad. And so you need to have choice and offerings. So I think what our company really has tried to do to clarify, I’m not against big buildings, um, at all.
Loe Hornbuckle (28:03):
I just think they have too much market share. Um, and if you study the history of our business, the way that people used to take care of somebody is what, what happened is I’m, uh, I get widowed, I’m a lady, I get widowed and I have to make money, right? Because back in the day, you know, most income came in from men. And so women would do is they would open a board and care home, right. And they would, they would take care of people and they’d rent out rooms and they provide meals and just take care of them. So that’s actually the more traditional way to do things. These big, these big facilities assisted living, came to America in 81 or 82, 19 81, 19 82. It’s not very old. It started in Oregon. It was the first assisted living community in America. So the, the way that it’s so dominant right now, it’s not actually the, the natural way that we went through that. So I think, um, you know, if, if assisted living and memory care was this new technology, it’s an, it’s a technology that we’re kind of thrown into the wayside and we’re moving back to our roots, which are smaller, more personal settings. Um, but in this case, if you’re going to build a business around it, if you’re going to run, if you’re going to create scaling, the only way to do that is to have a campus event. You can have everything you need.
Reed Goossens (29:08):
I would imagine it sort of probably looks as I’m trying to visualize. I’m a very visual person. It would be like a garden style multi-family apartment, but each build like you might have 16 buildings on a guidance on multifamily, but each building would be your own little memory care, like quote unquote care.
Loe Hornbuckle (29:25):
Yeah. I mean, I wouldn’t start with apartments as the model, I would start with a regular neighborhood. And when you drive up to a regular neighborhood, there are multiple 3000 square foot houses that contain families. Okay. So now they’re all single story. They all look like mansions, maybe ranch, style mansions. And instead of being 3000 square feet, they’re 9,000 square feet. Instead of having a family inside, it has 16 seniors. So, um, it really looks like a neighborhood. In fact, in one of our communities that we were building our secondary product in our plan here on campus, um, the neighbors were like, we thought this was a crazy neighborhood the entire time until, until the sun goes up, that’s exactly what we want because we want it to fit into a community. We want someone that’s aging to be able to like look around and have it feel like a, a regular community.
Loe Hornbuckle (30:10):
Right. I think that’s part of the issue is that when you live in a house for 50 years and you get uprooted and you have to go into something, that’s not a house, um, it’s true. It can be troublesome. It can be challenging for certain types of people. And so we just see ourselves as sort of the evolution of the technology, which is that, you know, caring for others is great. But if you don’t do it in the right physical plant with the right concepts, then you can kind of turn older people in the cattle and, you know, nobody wants that. And so a lot of seniors experience that when they’re in these big facilities and it’s like, they’re not a person, their room number, you know, 200. And, and that’s really what we’re trying to get away from is get back to the personal sort of boutique model that that’s really started us off from the beginning.
Reed Goossens (30:54):
Super interesting. And I think that’s, it’s such a great, unique way because my mind goes to, well, there’s some benefits of having a neighborhood style. You don’t necessarily need to have the amenities, right? Because you’ve got someone who’s there to come and take them on trips. Um, you might have a little leasing Senator to show people what, what you could look at, but, you know, to your point, it has the streetlamps, it has the sidewalks, it has the gutters, it looks like a neighborhood rather than what I’m in, pitching my head and my like the grand campus that is, oh, and over there, you’ve got the Manor and down there, you’ve got the people who do this, this and that. So they’re very, very, very distributed. And thank you so much for that.
Speaker 2 (31:33):
Reed Goossens (31:34):
For those of you who are interested in staying up to date with all the latest happenings in my business, or to learn more about passively investing directly into my multifamily value, add deals, then head over to [inaudible] dot com and sign up for my monthly newsletter by signing up, you’ll automatically be notified about my new up-and-coming investment opportunities. You’ll be able to stay up to date with all the latest real estate news here in the United States, and much, much more. So head over to Reedgoossens.com and sign up today. Now back into the show.
Reed Goossens (32:09):
Talk to me about how you’ve had to go through the operational side, like cropping management and multifamily. You’ve had to go through starting going operations of it and taking care of these seniors that would have been difficult in itself to figure out was that a learn, a big learning curve for you?
Loe Hornbuckle (32:25):
Uh, steep, very steep. I could imagine those so well. So I think what happened was I think two things took place. Um, one, you have to have presence, I think in this business, you have to be there, you have to lead. Um, you know, and, and I think the best companies have presence. So what’s funny is, um, I have one facility that’s five hours from, well, maybe six hours by car, maybe on an hour and a half flight, um, from my house. And I went there and I taught all the communities in the marketplace. And my intention was I was going to see who did the best job. And I was gonna try to hire them as a third-party manager and I wasn’t impressed with any of them. So I was like, well, I guess I’m going to have to do this. Um, I’d always intended on running this stuff in Texas as kind of a project in Louisiana.
Loe Hornbuckle (33:07):
That’s coming out later. For me, it’s all got started in the, in the development. And, um, yeah, so I had to do a lot of different things. I had to spend a lot of time, you know, kind of thinking about how I, how, what I want to effective at how, how I am as a leader and then surrounding myself with people that, to be effective in their own way. I think, you know, our approach to operations is a bit unique. Um, I think a lot of people in operations today, they’re trying to, uh, they’re trying to suck the creativity out of our business. Um, you know, the best, if, you know, look, if you hired 20 good property managers, multi-family, they’d figure it out. It’s not that complicated. You know, it’s, it’s really not, but everybody has their own way of doing things and their proprietary systems and the way they train people, you can suck the talent out of people.
Loe Hornbuckle (33:54):
Um, now if you’ve got somebody with a really strong why who’s taking care of seniors, uh, you know, on a remote market, you know, I can give him a million checklists, um, that’s not going to be effective. So what you got to do is you got to hire good people that have the right Y that are hard workers that, that are, and then you gotta get out of their way. Um, and, and when, when they need you out of their way, and then you got to support them when they need that. And so I, I have no interest in being a, a big company. I mean, I guess by, I guess, by some metrics, if you have a billion dollars in senior housing or whatever, you’re a big company, but what I’m trying to say is I don’t want to build some big public company we’re in all over the place and you, we’re trying to be the largest.
Loe Hornbuckle (34:33):
Um, I want to have a strong regional presence and build a medium sized company. You know, maybe we’ll have a thousand employees or 1500 employees will be a good size. But, um, and it’s because I, you know, I, I, I, I did a show recently and, uh, I was having a conversation. We’re talking about leadership style. What I said was I had some nurses in one of my operations that were vaccine hesitant. Okay. I know vaccines are controversial. Let’s just set that aside for a moment. Just imagine if you own an assisted living or memory care facility, there may be a little less controversial for us because I put a lot of shots in arms are very vulnerable people to this particular virus. And, uh, right around the time I was trying to persuade these nurses, um, to understand, to meet them where they were to figure out why they were vaccine hesitant.
Loe Hornbuckle (35:17):
I saw this really big hospital system in Texas, 50,000 employees have passed the vaccine mandate. And it was a really interesting moment for me as a leader, because I realized they don’t have the ability to persuade and convince 50,000 people. There’s no way to do that, but I can sit down and talk with two or three nurses and say, Hey, what’s going on? Why do you feel this way? And now they all got shots in their arms because a lot of what runs businesses, relationships. And so you can grow so large that you fundamentally mute the thing that you do well. And what I enjoy doing is I enjoy asking questions and learning about people and then trying to try to offer myself, um, to help them in any way that I can. And, and, and these nurses in this situation needed to get some facts needed to be understood.
Loe Hornbuckle (36:01):
You know, so many people, you know, around the vaccine conversation, they shame people, you know, and, you know, shame has its place, but we’re past the point of shame working. No, one’s, everyone’s been shamed enough for the decisions they made at this point. And so what’s really gonna matter is, you know, what’s going on? Why do you feel this way? You know, what is it, you know? And then ultimately I think both nurses decided to do this because they wanted to help other people, you know, we’re in this business to make we’re in this business. And we all know that you’re going to make personal sacrifices. You’re going to miss time with your family. You’re going to work late. You’re going to have to do that because ultimately, if you don’t do that, then you’re letting some other family have a problem letting out some of the residents have a problem.
Loe Hornbuckle (36:41):
And so, you know, I think nurses in general, they want to be healers. And the last thing a nurse wants to do is be the cause of a problem. Right. So, but I had to take that time. So I know that’s kind of a weird answer, but I think what I’m trying to say is, is that from a leadership perspective, I really want to still have the ability to keep my finger on the pulse of the organization. Even if I only have access to a few of the key managers, um, just because otherwise you just never know what’s going on. And I think it’s so easy to lose quality control in this business grow in too big, too fast. Um, and you know, there, there really are no national brands and senior housing, the national brands would beg to differ, but they’re wrong because if you go into a local market, if that facility’s good, you think they’re good.
Loe Hornbuckle (37:21):
If that facility is bad, you think they’re bad. And the number one way that facility is good or bad is who they hire as an executive director. Right? So unless you’ve got some great system for hiring executive director, um, then you don’t, you’re not going to have a brand you’re going to have a brand specific to your unique marketplace. So it’s a very localized, very facility, specific business. And a lot of companies are built for that because they want to create checklists and they want to create processes and systems. In reality, it’s about hiring good quality people to do good quality work and getting out of their way when they need you to,
Reed Goossens (37:53):
Uh, I assume there’d be some SLPs in place. You couldn’t just be like, Hey, here’s the keys go nuts. Do whatever, because I know you don’t have the other side of the coin where you got these, these bloody reports of people being abused in these homes. You know, there’s a big stigma around that. A bit Paul old frail grandma is getting, you know, whatever has happening to her, but do you sort of need those SLPs that obviously somewhat to, to keep, uh, keep everything on the, on the train tracks,
Loe Hornbuckle (38:18):
No offense, but I agree that you need standard operating procedure, but I think where, where you might have it wrong, if you think about it, standard operating procedure, doesn’t stop abuse, right? Because if you think about it, everybody has that policy in place, but at the abuse still takes place. Look at procedures and process, um, were what mattered. Then the big facilities would have had a monopoly on outcomes. They do not. Um, so if let’s just take, let’s take, you know, and I hate talking about this, cause it’s obviously terrible to think about somebody, um, you know, being abused or being neglected. But if you have a person that you hired to do a job, not only do they not do the job, they do it with callous and difference what policy or procedure is going to stop that nothing. Well,
Reed Goossens (39:01):
Your hiring decision as well. Right. Culture.
Loe Hornbuckle (39:03):
Exactly. Exactly. So your culture will and, and a good HR process will, um, to some degree, um, and, and, and keeping your finger on the pole. So that’s kind of why I said that I don’t want to be a large company cause I agree with you. You can get too far out over your skis and have those situations. Um, and look, you’re going to have, when you’re taking care of a large number of people, 24 hours a day, 365 days a year, um, you know, rain shine, power’s on, power’s off hurricane. Doesn’t matter if you’re, if you’re dealing with those situations, you’re going to have problems. You’re also going to have residents that are rude to staff. I mean, it’s not uncommon for residents to say something racist to a staff member, say something sexist, be inappropriate, and we have to deal with that. Um, so policies and procedures are great.
Loe Hornbuckle (39:48):
They’re important. I’m not against them. I think we’ve reached a stage in business now where everybody wants to systematize everything. When often the answer is just hire good quality, talented people and let them do what they do well. So say Joe, um, our operations company, um, the different communities are all a little different. Um, they operate inside a range of, you know, separable parameters, but, um, you know, different leaders are gonna have different strengths. And so I have to support those leaders in different ways. So some leaders supplement like, Hey, make sure, you know, if you’ve got an amazing executive director, who’s like weak at technology, then you’re like, okay, well when you hire your assistant ed, make sure they’re good at technology so that you’re not fumbling around Dropbox. You’re not fumbling around, you know, whatever app that we need to do. None of the other hand you’ll have somebody who’s like amazing at like going and coaching their caregivers and always engaging them, doing those things.
Loe Hornbuckle (40:43):
But they’re weak on facilities management, right? So what you really have to do is you build these good teams and you, and you build these situations, then you, then you, then you build around them and you accentuate their strengths and you help them with their weaknesses. So that’s really where HR to me is powerful is because you, you know, essentially assisted living and memory care. You’re a big, you’re a big human resource company. That’s really the answer. If you’ve got great caregivers, you’ve got great management. Most of your problems are going to be solved. A hundred percent.
Reed Goossens (41:09):
I interviewed a couple of my property managers on this show and they say exactly the same thing in the, that the real estate management game, whether it be in an assisted living or just multifamily, or even asset manager, so storage or whatever that might be you’re in the HR business. Like you’re, you’re, you’re managing people who rent from you, whether it be a multi-family, whether it be a bed, uh, in your case or, or storage facility, it’s all about the management of those people. And, and that’s, you know, I’m sure you’ve got your trials and tribulations of, you know, um, the, the, the, the ebbs and flows that come with with that type of business. So, um, shifting gears slightly, I want to talk just briefly towards the on show, have just met the high level numbers. You know, you talk about you’re developing from scratch.
Reed Goossens (41:55):
Um, I’ve, I’ve had some development, a lot of development experience here developing multi-family, uh, from ground up. So I understand, you know, construction cap rates versus interest rates and what you want to try and keep in terms of margin, but what do you do? There’s obviously the build side. Um, but, but well, let’s talk about the build side. What are you sort of building on, you know, from your way, all the, all the numbers, but is there a certain cap rate you’re trying to build to, to make it, to make it pencil, to know that your operations team can also make some money from, from just a bottom line, point of view?
Loe Hornbuckle (42:25):
Yeah. So a great question. Um, you know, I don’t, you know, I don’t necessarily know that, um, that I’m the strongest data person in the world. Uh, you know, I’m probably 25% data in 75% story. Um, so what I try to do in this business is create a compelling story. Um, you know, and, and what’s interesting is in our business is that you can model a deal at $6,500 per bed rent. And when you build the thing, you bring it on market or $8,500 a bed. So you can make a lot of mistakes. You miss the revenue by 30%, um, you know, cause if it made sense of 6,500, um, so what I would say is just as a general rule of thumb, um, bringing on new build assisted living and memory care is going to come online in the range of 200,000 to 300,000
Reed Goossens (43:15):
Bed for bed. Yes. Wow.
Loe Hornbuckle (43:17):
Okay. So, you know, an 80 bed facility is going to cost, uh, you know, if you’re doing it correct in certain markets, it’s going to cost you, they probably can’t anymore. It would probably be more than 300, $300,000. So I just could probably be a $24 million facility. Now there’s some exceptions to that. If you’re building a high rise, urban infill, and you’re going up, then it might, you might be doing something very differently. But I would say the average right now, if we’re gonna build something, it’s probably, let’s just call it 300,000 a bed. Um, and, um, you know, the thing about what we do, so we don’t necessarily, a lot of people build multifamily because they can build it at a better cap rate and they can buy it. Right. Um, that’s not what we’re doing here. We’re actually building a physical plan. We’re building something that doesn’t exist in the marketplace.
Loe Hornbuckle (44:00):
I can’t go out and buy campuses like what I designed, because I haven’t built that many. So there’s very little of what we do. So we’re creating it because we don’t have a choice. So the problem we want to solve is we wanna improve outcomes. And in order to improve outcomes, we need our physical plant to, to sort of match and be in line with our operational structure. And so we have to build it because it doesn’t exist. Um, so, you know, we, we, I hate the word. I really do trying to disrupt senior housing in my own way, but, you know, because I don’t want to be a big company. I hope people take some of the ideas that we’ve done and they copied them and mimic them and take them to other markets, you know, just, just don’t come to my market,
Reed Goossens (44:42):
Take it back. I’ll do the rough math, 6,500 bucks on a $300,000 per bed, looking at about a 25, 20 6% ROI on an annual basis, which is, which is a really good return on it. And I look at that on a multi-family right. If I’m going to spend $7,500 to renovate a property, I need to see what rental bump am I going to get to make sure that that makes sense. So I’m just doing some for the listeners.
Loe Hornbuckle (45:06):
Yeah. I mean, you got to have, you have a very, you have a very different labor profile. So for example, a good rule of thumb too, is for every bed that you have, you’re going to have anywhere from half to 0.7, five employees. So just imagine if you have a thousand beds of assisted living, you’re going to have 500 to 750 employees if you’re doing it right. If you have the correct ratios of staff, um, now thinking about a thousand doors multifamily, you come on at 25. Um, so maybe less, depending on how many, you know, how many people you have in the community. So really it’s, it’s, it’s a service business that has a real estate component to it. It’s not really a real estate business model. And, you know, obviously people rent apartments, oftentimes because the location is good, the amenities are good.
Loe Hornbuckle (45:46):
The, um, the pricing makes sense. People, uh, will travel and overpay and do all kinds of things in assisted living and memory care. If they like the team sitting belly to belly with them, right, they want, they’re really buying the team and the building comes with the team. So it’s a very different, uh, different, different business. So you can do some things where basically you can go into a market and assisted living and memory care and the market could change. And your strategy no longer is getting your fair share in the market. Your strategy is getting your unfair share of the market because you’re a non commoditized, um, type of business. And so that’s really the secret sauce is you just can’t be a commodity,
Reed Goossens (46:25):
Right? Well, what’s the rule of thumb on your expense ratio then given that, that, that, that, that half person per bed, because, you know, multi-family is roughly 50%, 55%, like, what do you, what do you, what are you expecting on your operational cost and that, that side?
Loe Hornbuckle (46:38):
Oh yeah. So oftentimes you’re going to be, uh, you know, probably 70 or 80, a lot of times in assisted living or memory care. Um, so, um, but, uh, again, I’m not a super high level data guy, Mr. Redneck. So I just go in and go okay, well, how much we got, you know, maybe do a deal in California. You’re going to potentially there there’s, there’s places in the country where there’s demand, but there’s gaps in the labor market. You can’t get caregivers, right. So you can’t get caregivers. It doesn’t matter what you do. Right. And then there’s other places where, um, the price elasticity of the residents doesn’t allow, um, for you to meet minimum wage requirements. Right? So it’s, it’s really, it’s less in my opinion. And again, maybe if I was trying to be a big company, I’d be more focused on these high level data analytics, but I just, I have some back of the napkin stuff that I do.
Loe Hornbuckle (47:35):
Um, but generally what I try to do is I try to figure out, you know, what’s the labor market, like in this place, if you can’t find caregivers, what do we would have to pay caregivers? You know, are there nurses, you know, what’s going on? And then, then that aspect, and then, and then who’s the, who’s charging the most in the marketplace and, you know, can we be better than them? Or if there are ceiling. Cause you know, we think their physical plant is so amazing, right? It’s a beautiful thing on a bluff overlooking at lake people. We’re going to spend money for that. So you just kind of figure out where the gaps are in the marketplace and then you start to kind of create a story inside of that. So I don’t necessarily know that I do it that way. You know, I’m very personal.
Loe Hornbuckle (48:11):
I think one of the things that happens a lot too in real estate is we look at stuff online and you got to get in the market to understand what’s going on. You really have to see because sometimes you’re on the wrong side of the street or, you know, it doesn’t present at the same way or it’s hard to get to, you gotta take an exit or whatever. So I think sometimes that gets lost in this business. And when you’re taking care of other people where you just have to pay attention to the, where the, why, the how, as opposed to some of the high level stuff. So I’m sorry, I’m not great on that. We’re we’re, we’re asking ourselves the big questions then we sort of hone in from there.
Reed Goossens (48:44):
Well, as you come to the end of the show, not to ask you what to sort of vision for the next five to 10 years with, with good horn and say,
Loe Hornbuckle (48:53):
Yeah. So, um, the goal is to start a Sago community, um, every year, um, these are generally be, you know, they’ll usually have phases, but let’s just say there’ll be 80 to 160 beds. So we’ll start one of those a year. And it takes about three years to get things going, depending upon the market you’re developing in really focused on north Texas. Um, good Oren capital, um, would very much like to, uh, you know, support say joke in that mission. And then secondarily, uh, we’re very bullish on other assets, like, you know, apartments, things like that. You know, we believe there’s, there’s strong demographic reasons for that. And obviously we’re fundamentally in a demographics business. So we, we enjoy, uh, Koji peeing or, uh, being involved and, and other things I feel like say Joe, cause our changed the world business. And then we sort of along the way, we’ll uh, do some layups and, and you know, stabilize multi-family, um, which is to say they’re not layouts because they’re not lamps for the person.
Loe Hornbuckle (49:46):
That’s probably underwritten a hundred deals to get that one deal. I can’t tell you how much I hate that part of the business. I love the strategy. I love thinking through, I love all the stuff that is involved in real estate, but you know, if I had to underwrite a hundred deals to get a deal, I wouldn’t be in this business. Um, so there are people that love doing that stuff. I love diving into numbers and doing that and God loves them and Amy, um, and, uh, so, uh, we, we like to partner with folks and, and asset classes and ultimately I would say long-term, um, we liked needs. Um, so one of the reasons why I can’t get that excited about storage, I mean, I like storage back here and I think it’s proven to be very resilient. There’s gonna come a time when you don’t really have to store your stuff, you know, there’s going to come and talk. I don’t, I don’t think like, I don’t think cavemen, like we’re like renting at this cave to store my grandmother’s stick. They weren’t doing that. Right. So I think, I believe the world sort of moves in these predictable ways and we always end up where we started. Uh, and just think we’re going to come through a time where housing people have to have housing. People have to have medical care. People have to have certain things. I don’t know that storage is on that list yet. Um, now
Reed Goossens (50:54):
I, I would, I would add that the consumers and part of L alpha lifestyle, is it like we just, we just bought too much crap know,
Loe Hornbuckle (51:02):
You know, and, and we feel guilty about it. So we store it and I, and that’s a very powerful thing. I’m not, I’m not, uh, I’m not maybe 30 years from now. I don’t know when society is going to change, but I’m positive that it will. Right. Um, and so, you know, and I’m not against storage, I probably I’ve invested in some storage deals, but I would rather invest in an RV park or mobile home park or an apartment because I know that people have to have affordable housing. Um, and that’s, and that’s, that’s not a given you don’t have to store stuff. Um, so the, you know, storage is kind of interesting business if you think about it, because sometimes your cold storage, you’re just giving freezer space to restaurants, right? So storage is, again, its own separate little asset class. When you dive into minutia, there’s tons of reasons to be really bullish on storage. Um, but ultimately I just think general, you know, storing retail people stuff. I just, I don’t, I don’t know. I don’t see that as a need. So I think good Warren capital really is focused on, uh, filling needs of people. People have to have housing at that medical care they have to have.
Reed Goossens (51:59):
I love it. I love the philosophy behind all of this stuff. It’s been a awesome, awesome interview mate. Uh, at the end of every show, like to dive into the top five investing tips, you’re ready to get into it. Sure. My number one question. This is a bit of a lightning round for all our guests on the show. The first question is what is a daily habit? You practice to keep on track towards your goals?
Loe Hornbuckle (52:19):
The focus on sleeping will, that’s good. I started tracking my sleep a bit of a wild man, but you know, if I’m, if I sleep well, I can do almost anything. So I focus on sleep.
Reed Goossens (52:29):
That’s that’s so powerful. Yeah. I, so many people, like I had three hours of sleep. He’s like, yeah, you can, you’re going to go to your grave early. You need your body needs it. So I I’m a big, big sleep, sleep tracking fan as well. A Christian I’m is who’s been the most influential person in your career.
Loe Hornbuckle (52:46):
Ah, there’s a lot to choose from. Um, you know, I think, uh, God, we talked about this earlier. It’s kind of funny. I’m going to say, I’m going to say grant Cardone and I’m going to say it with, uh, with, I’m gonna say it with extreme prejudice, which is to say that I think what Cardone did for me that was really important was, you know, the early part of Cardone was basically trying to remove the stigma from being a good salesperson, um, you know, sell or be sold and some of that stuff. And I don’t really resonate with this stuff much anymore. So if he’s listening, sorry brother. But, um, but what I will say is that I think he did a great service because he made people realize that sales didn’t have to be this negative thing. And so the type of sales and I’m in, um, I really think are about helping people. And so I believe my job is to diagnose someone’s problem and then offer a solution to that problem. Um, and so I think grant Cardone really influenced me and making me realize that being a sales person didn’t have to be a bad thing, you know, and it doesn’t have to be the boiler room. It can be something else.
Reed Goossens (53:41):
I like that. That’s a good, a good take on, on Catone. And hopefully
Loe Hornbuckle (53:45):
It wasn’t long before he was this celebrity. So I knew, I knew vintage Cardone.
Reed Goossens (53:54):
I want to, you still want to get him on to some point, but uh, working towards that,
Loe Hornbuckle (53:58):
No worries. This clip and he’ll jump on the shirts just to spite.
Reed Goossens (54:03):
Good, good, good, good point. I will. I’ll definitely try to tag him in this, uh, when, when it goes on social media, um, question three, what is the most influential tool in your business? And when I say tool, it could be a physical tool, like a journal or a mobile phone, or it could be a piece of software that you just can’t run your business without. What is it?
Loe Hornbuckle (54:20):
Oh, for sure. It’s my cell phone. Um, you know, obviously, um, I, uh, a friend, uh, Beth Clifford, um, said, um, that, you know, she could only pick one item, uh, to start over. She picked her phone. Right. Because it has everybody in it. Um, so yeah, it’s definitely your phone. I mean, you can do so many things with your phone. I mean, obviously we spend so much time, you know, so much coaching and training as a text or a phone call or something. So I think a phone is, is definitely are, are, are, are great at migrate as tool. It’s also, uh, it’s also our, our greatest holdup in life. It’s, it’s our greatest tool for sure.
Reed Goossens (54:55):
Deaths, girl, funny desk girls. Let it not, no, I know what you mean. Good stuff. Question four is what has been the biggest failure? Sorry. In one sentence, what has been the biggest failure in your career? What’d you learn from that failure?
Loe Hornbuckle (55:11):
Hm. I have so many, um, I think the biggest failure for me, um, was not being able to balance being an entrepreneur with my personal life. Um, so yeah, and I think, um, you know, when you first start a company, if it’s a difficult company, you can definitely pay the price. And I think I probably paid the price in terms of my personal relationships. And so I can definitely, I would definitely identify that as probably the biggest failure.
Reed Goossens (55:40):
What’d you learn from that? And was it just, you know, to not, to not choose difficult businesses or just to like not put the pressure on yourself so much?
Loe Hornbuckle (55:48):
No, I, I think, um, I think the answer for me was I surround myself with people that are supportive of what I’m doing. Um, so sometimes, um, let’s say if you’re not an entrepreneur and then you start a company and you’ve got friends and family that know you as the old you, right. And you see yourself as, as different person. I think when people meet you at sort of the apex of your entrepreneurial journey, um, then they get it, it’s baked in, you know, it’s, it’s kind of like, you know, jokingly, you know, like if you’ve, if you marry somebody and they become a cop and you’re like, oh, don’t do that. It’s a dangerous job. It’s totally different than if you’re like, you’re a police officer and I want to marry you as an example. So I think, I think just meeting people and having people that are supportive and understanding that, um, you know, that you’re going to get distracted sometimes as an entrepreneur in ways that maybe somebody that’s punching a nine to five clock may not
Reed Goossens (56:34):
Awesome, awesome stuff. Well, my last question is where can people reach you to continue the conversation they want to be in your sphere? Where are they going?
Loe Hornbuckle (56:40):
Goodhorncapitol.com. They can go there. My email address is just firstname.lastname@example.org uh, business partners named good. My name is Hornbuckle, which we didn’t say nearly enough of in our Australian accent. So that became goodhorncapital.com. If they go there, they can throw in their name and email address. And we give them a copy of our book to say joke story, which kind of walks through the story I told about my dad and kind of how we, how we started say joke his company.
Reed Goossens (57:05):
That’s awesome, man. That’s awesome. I want to thank you for jumping on the shutter. I want to reflect some of the things that I took away from today’s show. I think the big thing is for me is your mission, right? You’re you’re so mission orientated and you’re very clear with that mission. And so many entrepreneurs get into businesses to try and make them money, but you’ve got into a business that is somewhat difficult from the outsider’s point of view, building from ground up building, building demand. But knowing that at the end of the day, you’re doing good for people. Uh, and, and, and for the senior community that we, that we live with. And, and the, the aging population I think is, is, is probably the number one thing. And then to take it, to tackle the operation side, like that’s kudos to you, man.
Reed Goossens (57:42):
I, I wouldn’t even think of like having to hire nurses and cooks and drivers and all the things that go on with what you’re saying earlier about it’s being an HR company. So, um, tackling it all. But, but I think it also would have benefits in the long-term that you are vertically integrated like that, because if you did farm it out, it would just, you may not have the right reputation that you have today. So, so I think they’re just sort of half a day. There are a couple of points that I, that I took away from today’s show. Um, did I live in Indiana?
Loe Hornbuckle (58:10):
No. I mean, other than it’s, it’s really fun to be interviewed by someone was such a, such a wonderful accent.
Reed Goossens (58:17):
Well, Mr. Hornbuckle, I want to thank you for, for, for jumping on today’s show, enjoy the rest of your week and we’ll catch up very, very soon.
Loe Hornbuckle (58:25):
Thanks so much for having me. That was really, it was a real pleasure. Awesome.
Reed Goossens (58:28):
Well, they have another cracking episode jam pack with some incredible advice from loe remember the head over to goodHorn@capital.com, download his book and find out a little bit more about his story and what he’s doing at Sage Oak. Um, as well, interestingly enough, he’s his partner’s last name was also good. I thought they came out of it. They looked at wild horn and they, you know, they copied us, but not to be, uh, I want to thank you all again for taking some time out of your daddy tune in to continue to grow your financial IQ. If you do like this show, these is way to give back is to give it a five-star review on iTunes. And if you want to know anything more about myself, head over to Reed, goossens.com. You can follow me on all the social media platforms, and we’re going to do this all again next week. So remember the whole be brave, go give life a crack.