RG 346 – Where is the US Headed in a Post-COVID High-Debt World? with Jim Rogers
RG 346 - US Headed in a Post-COVID High-Debt World

We are honored to have one of the biggest names in the stock market investing world on the show with us this week to share his thoughts on today’s economic issues—Jim Rogers!

Jim Rogers is well-known for his historic, around-the-world travels. In 1990, he embarked on a motorcycle journey across six continents over twenty-two months. He did it again in 1999 along with Paige Parker on the iconic Millennium Mercedes, traveling around the world in three years and investing in different markets along the way.

Jim is also a bestselling author, a world-renowned financial commentator, and a highly seasoned American investor. Through his lifetime of experience as an investor and world traveler, Jim is now one of the most respected investors and financial commentators in the US.

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In this episode, we derive Jim’s insights on today’s debt market, the US economy post-COVID, and what could happen in the next few years. While everyone is still reeling from the economic mess the pandemic has created, Jim provides us with some of his thoughts that can help us navigate debt, inflation, and smart investing in the near future.


  • If debt and inflation get higher and higher, things are going to get much worse.
  • Major inflation is a problem all over the world for the first time in history in the post-COVID world.
  • Smart investors shouldn’t listen to other people; they invest in what they know.
  • Investing is not easy, and there are a lot of things you need to learn to become a successful investor.



Be Bold, Be Brave and Go Give Life a Crack!

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Podcast Transcript

Reed Goossens (00:00):

Good day Good day guys. Now, before we dive into today’s show, I want you to let you know that some of you may be aware that over the past eight years, I have built a substantial multi-family real estate portfolio here in the US worth over half a billion dollars. And in that time, my passive investors have received fantastic double-digit returns. And now you too can invest directly into my deals for as little as $50,000. So if you’re an interested investor, head over to reedgoossens.com to find out more. That’s reedgoossens.com. Now, back into the show.

Jim Rogers (00:42):

Well, it has all come crashing down many times in history, all over the world. , the world has not ended bear markets and bad economic times. Although the Secretary of the Treasury in the US says, don’t worry. We have, we have things under control now. We won’t have economic problems in the future. She has a couple of fancy Ivy League degrees, so if you believe her, then don’t worry. Everything’s nev. We’re never gonna have problems again, your new child is gonna have a wonderful life. Unfortunately, my reading of history is that we’ve always had economic problems everybody has on a recurring basis, and we will, again, it would be great if we never had problem. Oh, wouldn’t that be wonderful? But I, I know that’s not the way the world has ever worked. That’s not the way history works. That’s not the way economics works. That’s not the way human beings work. So I, anyway, I, I don’t expect a problem this much, but you know, we’re going to have problems in the next year or two and they’re probably going to be very serious because the, remember 2008, we had a big problem cause of too much debt. Well, my gosh, you know, Reed, since 2009, the debt has skyrocketed everywhere. So the next problem has to be really bad cuz the debt is so much higher than it has ever been anywhere in history.

Speaker 3 (02:16):

Welcome to investing in the us, a podcast for real estate investors, business owners, and aspiring entrepreneurs looking to break into the US market. Join Reed as he interviews go-getters, risk takers, and the best in the business about their journey towards financial freedom and the sheer joy of creating something from nothing,

Reed Goossens (02:36):

Good day Good day, a ladies and gentlemen, and welcome to another cracking edition of investing in the US Podcast from Los Angeles. I’m your host, reedgoossens Good is always Debbie with us on the show. Now, I’m glad that you’ve all tuned into it. Learn from my incredible guests and each and every one of them are the cream of the crop here in the United States when it comes to real estate investing, business investing, and entrepreneurship. Each show I try and tease out their incredible stories of how they have successfully created their businesses here in the us. How they’ve created financial freedom, massive amounts of cash flow, and ultimately created extraordinary lives for themselves and their families. Life by design, as I like to say. Hopefully these guests will inspire all of my cracking listeners, which are you guys to get off the couch and go and take massive amounts of action.

Reed Goossens (03:23):

If these guys can do it, so can you. Now, as you know, I’m all about sharing the knowledge with my loyal listeners, which is you guys, and there’s absolutely no BS on this show, just straight into the nuts and bolts. Now, if you do like this show, the easiest way to give back is to give us a review on iTunes, and you can follow me on Facebook and Twitter by searching at Reed Goossens. You can find the show every you podcast on iTunes, SoundCloud, Stitcher, and Google Play. But you can also find these episodes up on my YouTube channel. So head over to reedgoossens.com, click on the video link, and it’ll take you to the video recordings of these podcasts where you can see my ugly mug, but the beautiful faces of my guests each and every week. All right, enough outta me. Let’s get cracking and into today’s show

Reed Goossens (04:11):

Today on the show of the pleasure of chatting with the one and only Jim Rogers. Now for people who don’t know who Jim is, Jim has dedicated his life as a financial commentator, an adventurer, and a successful investor. He has been frequently featured in Times Magazine, the Washington Post, the New York Times, the Wall Street Journal, and just to name a few. And he’s had dedicated career as a successful investor and he’s gone on to publish 12 bestselling books across the globe. He’s become a Guinness World record holder, and now he resides in Singapore. He’s best known for his thoughts on global e economy while successfully investing whilst traveling. And I’m really pumped and excited to have him on the show today to share his incredible depth of knowledge. But enough outta let’s get him out here. Good, a Jim, welcome to the show. How are you doing today, mate?

Jim Rogers (04:54):

Reed, I’m delighted to be here. I’m sure I’m gonna learn more than you will

Reed Goossens (04:58):

. Well, my friend, I always like to ask my guests when they jump on the show, and this is a bit of a curve ball. Rewind the clock and tell me how you made your first ever a dollar as a kid.

Jim Rogers (05:08):

Oh, my first time, I can remember the very night it happened. I was five years old. I was picking up, uh, there was a baseball game in town where my grandparents lived and the old lady hired me to pick up empty bottles. She paid me 5 cents for every 24 bottles. And one night I made a dollar and 15 cents. I couldn’t believe how much money that was. I could not, in fact, I went home and I gave my three year old brother some of it. Cause I just couldn’t believe how how much money had Sunday fallen into my pocket.

Reed Goossens (05:41):

That’s awesome. That’s awesome. Well, look, I don’t want to let do an injustice of your background, but you, you, you’re, you’re a very well, well dedicated, uh, decorator, I should say, in terms of your views on the the the global economy. Do you wanna give the listeners just maybe a 32nd to a minute, you know, crash course, elevator pitch of, of what you’ve achieved in your lifetime? And I, you know, the, the l the li I could talk for 20 minutes of all the achievements, but I want to hear it from the man himself. Um, you know, to give us a background for people who may not know, understand, or know who you are.

Jim Rogers (06:12):

Well, I had a career on Wall Street. He was successful and I retired when I was 37 because I wanted adventure. I wanted to see the world. And so I set out to see the world, drove around the world twice, once on a motorcycle, once in a car, as you know, uh, cause I wanted to see, see it all and do it all. I certainly had a little bit of money and I certainly need and like to make money, but to me, there were other things in life and I wanted to do some of those things. And, and by the way, I never had children. I didn’t want children. Uh, but when I was 60, I had my first child, I realized I was wrong about children. Now I have two daughters and it’s fantastic. And if there’s anybody who hasn’t had children and you are old enough to be sure you’d do it,

Reed Goossens (06:58):

I just had my first daughter, uh, she’s four months old and I’m, uh, there’s bags under these eyes, mate. And that’s, uh, it’s for a reason. So, . Um, with that being said, I wanna talk a little bit about your perspective on traveling the globe because, you know, I’m, I’m a, I’m originally from Australia, moved to the us I get, I get a lot of impact out of traveling to different countries and seeing how pe different people live. So what was the, the draw for you to travel the globe and then successfully invest whilst traveling and seeing how other economies work and, uh, and and what drives them to, to maybe be a, be a good investment for you and your, your clients? Well,

Jim Rogers (07:33):

Really, I grew up in a town and the backwards where my phone number was five. If you grow up in a town like that, you either never leave or you wanna see it all. And I was nuts and crazy and insisted on seeing it all. And I found the more I travel, the more I learn. It’s a phenomenal education to have to cross a border in a desert or see places you’ve never been. Find your own food, find your own place to sleep. You cannot believe how much you learnabout yourself, life and the world. And I learned many places where certainly not what you read in the press, certainly not what the propaganda says. And from my very first travels, it was very exciting. And so I wanted more of it. I’m sure my children someday will say, Dave, wish you’d stay working longer, , you know, uh, but I wanted to use whatever money I had to buy my freedom and to have adventure.

Reed Goossens (08:33):

You, you end up in, in Singapore these days. Any particular reason? Tax reasons, just, you wanna live in Singapore because you like it?

Jim Rogers (08:39):

Well, certainly not tax reason. I’m an American citizen. So do Americans have to pay taxes wherever they’re, uh, I wondered my children many years ago, I tried to tell everybody that China was the next great country and they should teach their children and grandchildren Mandarin. And those days, by the way, everybody said, no, no, no, Japan, Japan, Japan. You know, I mean, we all know what happened, you know, the rest of that story now. But then I had this child and I realized, what am I gonna do? Because I realized raising her in New York, she would not speak Mandarin the way she should to prepare her for the 21st century. We tried China. China was very polluted in those days. Uh, but it’s less polluted now. But it was filthy. So I couldn’t bring myself to live in China. Singapore, everything works. They speak English, they speak Mandarin, and it’s fantastic education. Fantastic. Everything. So here we are.

Reed Goossens (09:38):

Well, I I I, I’ve never been to Singapore and I’ve, I’ve been traveled to a few of the Southeast Asia countries and it’s, it’s an incredible part of the world. It’s obviously probably very hot there right now, uh, being so close to the equator. But, um, but tell me, you know, your thoughts on China these days, you know, it’s the, the world. Everyone talks about the new world order and the US and losing the control. Where do you see where we are? And, and, and, and given your decorated career, how have you seen evolved over the years as, as a China being such a, a global dominance, uh, on the world stage?

Jim Rogers (10:07):

Well, China, well, China’s been great three or four times. They’ve been on top. Uh, the only country in the world, by the way, does been on top three or four times. Rome was great once, Egypt was great once Britain was great once, but China’s been on grade three on top, been grade three or four times. It’s collapsed three or four times. But for whatever reason, and I don’t know the answer, after a few decades or centuries at the bottom, they turn around and rise to the top again. It’s happening again. I can tell you all, I mean, they work hard. They save their money, they educate, they discipline their children. I mean, I can tell you all sorts of things, but I don’t know why it’s happened on a recurring basis. It is happening again, a billion, 400 million of them in China. And whether we like it or not, and a lot of people don’t like it, China’s on the rise again. And it’s certainly not good that people try to stop it and fight it. People should work together. We could all have great prosperity. I mean, America and China, for 30 or 40 years there proceeded to have great prosperity together. Now, America’s trying to go the other way, but it’s happening whether we like it or not

Reed Goossens (11:22):

On that point. How do you, how do you navigate that when you’re talking to people? Because there seems to be such a, a big, you know, there’s always someone else’s fault. It’s China’s fault, it’s America’s fault. It’s always, you know, there, there’s this dominance at, at who’s gonna be at the top of the world power. How, how do you, how do you put all that crap aside and try and just get on and, and and, and, and, you know, have a fruitful relationship and, and have the good old days, so to speak, of what you, you mentioned earlier,

Jim Rogers (11:47):

Well, well, throughout history, no matter what the country, when things started going wrong, the politicians blame the far, it’s easy to blame the far they have different skin, different hair, different eyes, different language, different clothes, different religion, different food. It’s very easy, you know, uh, they smell bad and their food smells bad, you know, I mean, I can imagine all the stuff I have heard over the decades about people talking about foreigners and other people. Well, it’s happening again. Trump wanted to win some boats. So he started blaming all the foreigners, especially in China. He even blamed the Canadian. He even blamed the Germans. He blamed Japanese, he blamed everybody. Um, but especially the China cause they’re the biggest and the most successful and the most visible. Uh, is it the good? Is it good for the world? Of course not. Has it always happened? Yes. Well, hasn’t always ended up in war or something, but at times countries do work together and prosper together. But the easy way, especially for politicians is to blame the foreign Trump. And others started doing it, and it’s continuing. Is it good? No, of course. It’s not good.

Reed Goossens (12:59):

Do, do you see, and you buy into the rhetoric about the US losing world power and all this sort of stuff and the change in the world auto do, do, do you, do you think that’s happening in, in, is, is is transitioning to China and, and is that a bad thing?

Jim Rogers (13:13):

Well, really, it, it doesn’t matter if it’s a bad thing or not. It’s always happened. That’s the way the world worked. Nobody has stayed on top for more than a hundred, 150 years. It has never happened If you, it is never happened. So I know that’s the way people work. The world works. It is always, whoever’s on top now will not be on top in a hundred years. And there’s nothing we can do about that. We can scream all day about it. But it’s, and that is what is happening now. America’s now the largest debtor nation in the history of the world, and the debts go higher every day. Now that has never been a way to success, to build up gigantic debts. No country in history. It’s built up gigantic debts and wars around the world has wound up being on top, uh, down the road. And I, I don’t like saying any of this. I’m an American and I have American family, but it’s what’s happening. The debts go higher, the overextension goes higher, and America has been on top for a century or so. That has always changed.

Reed Goossens (14:19):

Right. No, it’s, it’s such an interesting concept and it’s, it, you know, the, the change of the world or, and what’s gonna happen, it’s, I think everyone’s, you know, starting with, you know, monetary policy in, in having the US dollar as the world currency. Do you see that changing and being a catalyst if it was to go away from that at all?

Jim Rogers (14:38):

Well, what I just said about countries being on top also applies to their currencies. No currency, no international currencies been on top forever. Uh, and unfortunately the US is driving people away from the dollar. Now, you know, people in many countries realize that the dollar, that the US is a huge debtor. And they’re, so, there are fundamental reasons for looking for another, another currency, but also now their political reasons where the Washington gets angry at you, they cut you off. Right? You know, the world’s international currency is supposed to be neutral. You can do anything you want to, anybody can do anything they want to with it. Unfortunately, now Washington cuts you off. And so many countries, even Americans’ friends are starting to say, wait a minute, wait a minute. This could happen to us too. So the world is out there looking for a, a new competitor to the US all. And by the way, Reid, if you know what it’s gonna be, don’t announce it. Send me an email cuz I’m looking for it. I don’t know what it’s gonna be

Reed Goossens (15:43):

Yet. You don’t, you don’t, you don’t think crypto has, has it? Is it wants to be it?

Jim Rogers (15:48):

Uh, I don’t know. I, I don’t, well, all money in the future is going to be computer money or crypto money. Uh, in China, you can’t even take a taxi. Now with, with money, you can’t buy an ice cream with money. You have to have your money on the phone. And every country’s working on it, including the us. But when the US finally says, okay, God, this is money. Now I don’t think the US is gonna say, but if you wanna use that money over there, you can use that money. You know, that’s not the way governments, especially the American government works. They want control. They want know what, they want to regulate everything. So, no, I don’t see how many governments are gonna say, use anything you want. It would be great for the world if that were the case. But that’s not the way governments think. And the governments have the guns. I don’t have the guns. They have the guns.

Reed Goossens (16:42):

. I wanna flip back to what you were saying earlier about the debt, you know, and where we come outta two, 2023 at 22, I should say. And you know, particularly here in the us such an increase, um, you know, we we’re coming on four point, the, the Fed just raise it again. So we’re, you know, between 4.5, uh, 4.5 and 4.75 on a, on a, on a reserve rate, other countries around the world. I think I saw a start that over 90% of countries, central banks are rising in lockstep with the US to keep their dollar competitive. What, what, you know, with all the debt that they printed just recently, one, do you think it was a good thing to help us through covid and, and obviously every other country did it as well. Australian being one of them, you know, us being, uh, Canada being another, and then two, where do you see it going and, and, and are we, do you know, even keeps talking about the debt, the debt, the debt, but it doesn’t seem to get any smaller, right? So what’s, let’s start with was was it a good thing to print all that money? And secondly, do you know, is it gonna get any smaller?

Jim Rogers (17:40):

It has never been good in history. No country in history has become a great success by printing money and building up gigantic debt that is good for a while. It’s your term and it often has been, but it’s never worked in the long term. So my answer is no, it’s not good. Somebody’s going to pay for it. I mean, I’m an old American, it’s good to be an old American now. My kids are young American. It’s not a good time to be a young American because of the debts and the problems that they’re going to face in their lifetimes. You know, when Britain went from number one to something else, it was not a good time. You know, in, in the 1920s, a hundred years ago, Britain was the number one. There was no number. Two 50 years later they were bankrupt. Literally the IMF had to bail them out. And that happened in 50 years. Uh, it’s happened to everybody. And debt has never been the success. Printing money has never been the way to success. So, I mean, I honestly don’t know what’s going to happen, but I know what has always happened in the past and it’s going to happen again.

Reed Goossens (18:52):

Do, do you obviously, do you think we’re in a debt bubble and will it burst? And what does, what does a burst look like for the US if and when it comes? Well,

Jim Rogers (19:00):

We’ve had, in, in the seventies, we had a lot of inflation for a variety of reasons. It was a different world. But we did have a period of very, very high inflation. And the governments had to raise interest rates to break inflation. You know, Reed, you’re not gonna believe this, but interest rates on short-term treasury bills, 90 day treasury bills in the US were over 21%. That’s not a typo. You know, interest rates have gone up a bit here in the last several weeks, but this is nothing like what has happened in the past when we’ve had serious inflation problems. So before this is over, interest rates are going to go much, much higher in order to kill inflation. Now the problem is the central bankers rarely know what they’re doing. We’ve had some good central bankers in history. Not many, most of these guys are bureaucrats and academics. They don’t know what they’re doing. They’re just trying to keep their jobs. They don’t care about you and me. They care about their jobs.

Reed Goossens (20:02):

So with the, with the increase the rate of increase in which we’ve had, I, and I loved your, your a lot older than I, I was trying to look through the history books. Have we seen a rate of increases quickly as we saw last year in history? I couldn’t find anything. If we’re going from zero to four, that’s four hun. It’s 400% growth or fourfold, you know, in a

Jim Rogers (20:24):

Well percentage, whether that’s a huge move. We’ve had big moves in the past and certainly in times of crises, some countries suddenly, you know, try, try to jack up rates a lot. Uh, we have to, uh, we the world, I don’t think anybody has that kind of crisis right now that they have to skyrocket suddenly. Yeah, zero to four is a lot percentage wise. But to repeat, they were 21% , 21% last time around. So in my view, we haven’t seen the top yet.

Reed Goossens (20:58):

Okay. Okay. With the, the, the, the natural, the natural next question comes, will, if they’re, if Fed keeps raising, how do they keep paying their own debt? Because I, I’ve read somewhere and I, I don’t don’t, I can’t quote it, but there was some point at which the debt payments would be more than they spend on Medicaid or something like that. You know, if you got to, and I, I’m again making this up a figure of like six or 7% of the, the reserve rate is, is there any fear in your mind that they c can’t just, they’re gonna get too much and they can’t afford to pay their own debts back? And that would cause some tipping point in your mind.

Jim Rogers (21:33):

What you just said was simple arithmetic. I mean, you can get out the numbers and figure it out and the debt is staggering in the US and put higher interest rate, higher interest rates on that. And the numbers come up very, very appalling. Frightening. In fact, yes, that’s going to happen in the US Is it going to happen in the, in February of 2023? No, but it’s going to happen eventually. Cause the debt keeps going higher and higher expenses keep the, nobody’s reducing their debt anywhere. Uh, so now it’s going to get much, much worse. And that’s going to continue to add to the inflation that’s happening. And money printing adds to inflation. There are fundamental changes taking place in the world that cause infl looks like we’re going to have electric vehicles. Will electric vehicles use much more copper than gasoline via vehicles? Much more LED lithium, things like that. So we, and and nobody’s been opening lead miners in the last few decades, so no, we have many things going on, which are gonna mean that inflation’s going to be worse. Interest rates are going to go higher and higher. You should be worried.

Reed Goossens (22:47):

Do you think with the jobs report that came out just recently, that they added in the, I think the, the last month, over month, over 500,000 jobs, that there’s some, that some economists are putting too much weight on the strength of, you know, the, that that the, the, the economy is still adding more jobs and if you look back at history, that that doesn’t necessarily mean you don’t have to have pain in unemployment to then reverse the course of reducing rate, uh, interest rates. So, you know, do you think that that’s a good thing that we’re still seeing the, the economy adding more jobs to it? Or is that, is that, is are we sort of, you know, 12 months in the looking in the review vision mirror of we’re still making employment is still being, decisions around employment are still being made sort of six, 12 months ago and then not being made in today’s interest rate environment where the Fed keeps raising rates, uh, again and again?

Jim Rogers (23:35):

Well, I’ll use the us uh, since it’s the largest, if you print a lot of money and you borrow and spend a lot of money, things are going to be good. You know, Reed, if you give me 5 trillion, I will show you a very good time, . See, we will have, we’ll have the time of your life if you give me 5 trillion to spend and throw around. But unfortunately, eventually somebody’s gotta pay it back or some consequences. You have to debase it. You have to do something. And when you eventually have to do something, it’s usually not fun. We’re not to that stage yet. Uh, not anywhere near that stage.

Reed Goossens (24:18):

Do, do you think in your crystal ball, where do you think that stage would come at? What sort of pain point do we have to get to? Is it unemployment going up? Is it something else that we’re not seeing? You know, we would not that the average, you know, American or investors not aware of that is gonna sort of come and cause it to, you know, all come crashing down.

Jim Rogers (24:40):

Well, it has all come crashing down many times in history, all over the world. The world has not ended bare markets and bad economic times. Although the Secretary of the Treasury in the US says, don’t worry. We have, we have things under control now. We won’t have economic problems in the future. She has a couple of fancy Ivy League degrees, so if you believe her, then don’t worry. Everything’s never, we’re never gonna have problems again. Your new child is gonna have a wonderful life. Unfortunately, my reading of history is that we’ve always had economic problems everybody has on a recurring basis. And we will, again, it would be great if we never had problem. Oh, wouldn’t that be wonderful? But I, I know that’s not the way the world has ever worked. That’s not the way history works. That’s not the way economics works. That’s not the way human beings work. So I, anyway, I, I don’t expect a problem this month, but you know, we’re going to have problems in the next year or two. And they’re probably going to be very serious because the, remember 2008, we had a big problem cause of too much debt. Well, my gosh, you know, Reed, since 2009, the debt has skyrocketed everywhere. So the next problem has to be really bad cuz the debt is so much higher than it’s ever been anywhere in history.

Reed Goossens (26:12):

For those of you who are interested in staying up to date with all the latest happenings in my business, or to learn more about passively investing directly into my multi-family value add deals, then head over to reedgoossens.com And sign up for my monthly newsletter. By signing up, you’ll automatically be notified about my new up and coming investment opportunities. You’ll be able to stay up to date with all the latest real estate news here in the United States and much, much more. So head over to reedgoossens.com and sign up today. Now back into the show.

Reed Goossens (26:48):

As you look at the globe, it’s one, one thing I talk about on this podcast a lot that 2008 was a, a us problem that percolated around the world today seems to be everyone’s at the same starting point. They all had covid hit, everyone was locked up. Everyone, you know, people lost their jobs. Central banks were panicking. What do we do? Print more money. Australia did it, Canada did it, European did it. So now we’re all at this like, I don’t wanna say starting block, but we seem to, it seems to be like everyone’s like, what’s gonna happen? And they’re all at the same starting block and it’s, it’s different. I, I couldn’t find in my research and history where this has all been inflation’s been a problem in Australia and in the US and in Canada and in Europe at the same time that we’re all trying to deal with the, you know, and control it at the same time. Any any thoughts and comments on that as you compare it again to history, looking back and, and where we are specifically today in this, in this cycle?

Jim Rogers (27:42):

Well, no, usually when you start having major inflation in the world’s leading economy, that affects everywhere. I mean, Reed, the price of copper is the price everywhere. You can’t, you know, the price of copper goes up in Germany, it also goes up in Australia and goes up in Japan. You say, oh, we’re gonna buy cheap copper somehow. You can’t say we’re gonna buy cheap gasoline. No, the price of oil goes up there. Maybe not the same degree, but the prices go up everywhere. And if people say, oh my gosh, the price of eggs is going through the roof, the people who produce eggs sell the eggs. Well, they can get the most money. So the price of eggs goes up everywhere. No, I I, I’m sorry. Inflation when it occurs in major economies usually eventually affects everybody whether we like it or not.

Reed Goossens (28:36):

Right? Right. And then you have the other developing countries who are borrowing in US dollars and have to pay it back. And now they’re, the borrowing cost have gone up. So, you know, that’s, there’s an issue there as well.

Jim Rogers (28:47):

Well, if interest rates go up in the US and you have borrowed US dollars, you have to pay our interest rates whether you like it or not. It’d be wonderful if you could figure out a way that, well, we can buy eggs cheaper than everybody and pay less interest rates than everybody else. Well, I haven’t figured out that yet. If you figured out, let us No,

Reed Goossens (29:06):

No. It’s, it’s, it’s just a commentary. It’s, it’s interesting to see, see, we’re all headed. Um, Jim, what are you coming into 2023? Where are you investing your money these days? What’s, what’s sort of the advice to the average listener as we come into this high inflationary environment? You know, we are talking about eggs being, you know, in copper being expensive across the globe. This isn’t just a US problem like 2008. That’s, that’s now, you know, around the, the globe. Where, where, where’s a where’s a smart investor like yourself placing their money these days?

Jim Rogers (29:33):

Well, first of all, uh, smart investors should not listen to other people. They should only invest in what they themselves know. That’s how you become a smart investor. You don’t listen to hot tips. I mean, everybody wants to get rich quick, right? I want easy money, I want fast money, but I know that easy money and fast money is dangerous money. So, but be successful. You don’t listen to other people. You stay with what you know, if I told you that you could only have 20 investments in your life, you’re gonna be very careful about what you invest in. You’re not gonna be listening to some guy you see on the internet. You’re gonna be very careful and you’re going to be successful. So I can tell you some of the things I’m doing, but please, if I say to you that agriculture’s got a great future, do not invest in agriculture unless you like getting out in the sun and getting hot and dirty and know what you’re doing, uh, because you are gonna fail if you just listen to co and copy other people.

Jim Rogers (30:38):

Uh, and when we have inflation, the way to succeed is to own the things that go up in price. So the things that go up in price are usually real assets. I mean, bonds in around the world are a bubble. Bonds have never been this expensive in the history of the world. So I cannot bond unless there’s special situation bonds somewhere. I would not invest in bonds. Property i n many places had become a bubble. If you go to Korea, New Zealand, some parts of the u us and other things, you know, there are bubbles already. Some stocks, I mean, you know, some of those American tech stocks went up every day and they became a bubble and still are in something of a bubble. But that’s true in Korea, that Japan, wherever you go, many, many stocks have become a bubble. The only thing I know that’s still cheap on the historic basis, I mean, silver’s down 50% from its all time high.

Jim Rogers (31:40):

That’s not a bubble. When something’s down 50% from its all time high sugar. Oh my god, sugar’s down 60 or 70% from, its all time high. So the most real assets, commodities are cheap on a historic basis. And there are supply problems and demand problem developing in some of these commodities. So that may be a place where people can find good opportunities. And if inflation is going to come back or continue, those are the things that are gonna go up. That’s what inflation is. Inflation means prices go higher and you own the things that go higher. You, you do well.

Reed Goossens (32:21):

Right. Are you, um, this is a, we, we obviously talk a lot about real estate investing on this show, commercial real estate here in the us. What are your thoughts on, if you have any opinions on, you’re talking about bubbles and commercial real estate. Has, you know, particularly multi-family has seen a big, big bribe in the last 10 to 15 years. Any comments on that for the listeners who I know, know, tune in every single week to, to to hear about multifamily investing?

Jim Rogers (32:43):

Well, if you, I, I know that there’s some great multifamily investments somewhere in the world right now. Probably many places in the world, I don’t know where, but I don’t, I don’t pay that much attention, uh, to that sort of investment. But if you know where they are now, yes, there are bubbles in many places. If you go to Korea or New Zealand, as I said, or some places in the world, multi-family apartments are in a serious bubble, it should be avoided. But that does not mean that they’re not great opportunities. Probably in agricultural areas, multifamily apartments are still cheap because agriculture has not been very good for the past 30 or 40 years. So they’re bound to be places where you can find good opportunities. There always are. I just do not know them.

Reed Goossens (33:37):

Yep. No, it’s a

Jim Rogers (33:38):

Good, good. You should, what you should do is listen to read. He’ll tell you, he’ll tell you where they’re

Reed Goossens (33:44):

. Don’t, as you say, as you say, my friend, don’t listen to people on the internet. Right. It’s gotta, you gotta, I do like the advice of invest in what you know him. Um, as we come to the end of this show, and I’ll be, we wanna be respectful of your time, and I know you’re a busy, busy man. Is any sort of advice for investors getting started in today’s world? High inflationary stuff? You mentioned hard assets, but, but in terms of bigger, taking one step back, what are you, what’s your number one piece of advice that you can give to a person starting out over the decades that you’ve been investing across the globe and different many different countries? What is that sort of number one piece advice for people starting out today?

Jim Rogers (34:22):

Well, first of all, read a lot and learn a lot before you get involved. Uh, even if you are very successful for several months or for a year or two, there’s a lot you don’t know, uh, at least there was a lot I didn’t know, uh, in, in my early days. And so the more you know, when you’re gonna find out that this is not an easy way to make a living, cause it, it looks easy. Everybody said, I could have bought Apple , it’s easy. I could have bought Apple. Well, okay, you, you wouldn’t have and you couldn’t have probably. Anyway, the it is, first of all, it’s not easy. Second, a huge amount you need to learn. And then if you’re going to be successful, back to what I said, stay with what you know, that’s how people become successful investors. They don’t become successful investors jumping in and out of things, listening to hot tips, you know, going down to the bar and listening to all the good stories.

Jim Rogers (35:23):

That’s not the way you become a successful investor. You, you just be boring. be boring and stay with what you know. And that’s how you’ll be a very successful investor. But take your time and learn a lot about how it works. First was one time early in my career, you know, I I made it a astonishing success after only two or three years in the business. Um, and everybody around me was going broken. He all of a sudden I was making money handover fist. And I really thought, this must be very easy. You know, I’m gonna be so rich. Needless to say a few months later I had lost everything. Wow. Because there were, and, and by the way, the companies that I invested in eventually did better than I thought they would. But the problem was, it was a lot. I didn’t know. I didn’t understand how other investors worked in the market. I didn’t understand that. Many investors don’t know what I thought I knew. And they say, you have to learn about not just yourself, not just about your investment. You have to learn about other people and the markets and how they work. Cuz they’re not rational. People aren’t rational, but markets aren’t rational. This is not an easy way to make money.

Reed Goossens (36:43):

, I love that People aren’t rational cuz it’s so true. You know, uh, I feel humans are the cause of, of every recession, right? It’s, we, we talk, we talk ourselves in, we do something stupid, you know, we will repeat history over and over again. We won’t learn. And it was, you know, we’ll end up back the way we were before and we’ll say, we’ll do things different next time. And we keep on making the same bloody mistakes.

Jim Rogers (37:02):

, the main the main lesson that people should learn from history is people do not learn the lessons of history. history’s very clear, but people don’t pay attention. They don’t care. But they think it’s different this time. They think they don’t need to know history. Well, I know, I now realize history’s smarter than I am.

Reed Goossens (37:23):

Right. Right, right, right. Um, well at the end of every show, Jim, we’d like to dive into the top five investing tips. It’s a lightning round. I’ll ask you five quick questions, get your answer. You ready to jump into it?

Jim Rogers (37:35):

Well, I am, but I don’t know if I can keep up. Go ahead,

Reed Goossens (37:39):

. Question number one is what’s the daily habit you practice to keep on track towards your goals?

Jim Rogers (37:44):

Wait, what’s the, the day I go to the gym every day for at least every day, A couple hours a day? Well, I mean, every day that I can.

Reed Goossens (37:49):


Jim Rogers (37:50):

Obviously sometimes if I’m on a plane or something I cannot go. But if I can I go. Nice.

Reed Goossens (37:55):

Question number two is what’s, who has been the most influential person in your career over the years?

Jim Rogers (38:01):

Well, now I would say my two teenage children. I never wanted children. I told you before, they were children who were a horrible waste of time and money. , I felt sorry for people who had children, but I would say I then I had children and I realized I was wrong. And there I have learned enormous amounts from these kids. And I continue to learn every day about life, about people, about everything.

Reed Goossens (38:29):

I, it’s, it’s sounds like it’s made you humble in, in, uh, in your older years.

Jim Rogers (38:34):

As I say, I’ve learned a lot from these little girls.

Reed Goossens (38:37):

, another, another question number three is in, um, is about influence of a tool. So when I’m talking in your business, what is the most influential tool that you use? And when I say tool, it could be a phone, a physical, a physical tool, or it could be a piece of software that you just can’t run your business without. What is it?

Jim Rogers (38:55):

Well, it’s reading. Uh, I mean, you can read from paper, newspapers or the internet or phones. There are lots of ways to get access to read things. But the single most important thing for me is reading, reading, reading.

Reed Goossens (39:09):


Jim Rogers (39:10):

I love it as much about as much as I can about lots of stuff. Mm-hmm.

Reed Goossens (39:14):

question number four is in one sentence, what has been the biggest failure in your career? What did you learn from that failure?

Jim Rogers (39:20):

Oh my God. That’s in one word. That’s a day. That’s a day. You wanna hear about my first wife? Oh my god. Mistakes. You know, I, I told when I, I told you before, I met a great triumph in the stock market in my early days, which led to my dis the disaster losing. I guess that was what the biggest lesson or the biggest teacher for me was losing everything. Even though I was right in the end about those stops, every one of ’em I would write about, but I lost everything first. Cause I didn’t understand markets and other people.

Reed Goossens (40:04):

Uh, there’s a follow up question to that. How did you, how did you pick yourself back up after losing everything? Because I assume when you, when you get money so quickly that at such a young age thinking that you’re invincible, how do you dust your, your feet off and your knees off and go again? Well,

Jim Rogers (40:18):

You look around pe a lot of people have huge failures and they become priests or suicide or runaway. I mean, I guess I could have done all of those things, but I didn’t want to be a priest. I didn’t wanna run away and I certainly didn’t want to commit suicide. That’s all I could do was start over just, ah, start saving my money and trying to come back. And I did. I mean, that was the only only solution I knew.

Reed Goossens (40:47):


Jim Rogers (40:49):

I guess the answer to your question is I just didn’t give up.

Reed Goossens (40:51):

You didn’t give up. No, that’s, and, and, and, and I think that that resilience is such an important thing when you do hit rock bottom and at such a young age, you know, getting to sort of, you know, making all this money and thinking it’s easy and all that sort of stuff. So, um, one last question before we go. I I, you know, you’re an avid traveler, so I’m an avid traveler. What’s been the, what’s the best country? What’s the best place you’ve ever visited in your entire life? I’m sure that’s a bit of a, there’ll be many, but is there one, one place that sticks out to you, uh, one adventure that sticks out?

Jim Rogers (41:22):

Well, I mean, I was much held hostage for nine days in the Congo that sticks out. wasn’t particularly fun. When you say sticks out, yeah. If you’ve been been held hostage in the condo for nine days, it will stick out. , I assure you, if you survive, fortunately I’ll survive here I am a lot and, and can talk about it. But, well, when you travel, you know, if you, when when I live where I, when I live in Singapore, if I go out the door, I more or less know what’s gonna happen to me, whether I go right, left, or straight ahead. But when you’re traveling, you never know what will happen in five minutes. I mean, you could be the goddess, you could be dead, you could be in the hospital, you could be in jail. I mean, who knows? And that’s the great, for me, the great adventure and the great excitement of traveling to unknown places, overland.

Jim Rogers (42:17):

Uh, that is a constant thrill for me. And, and you learn enormous amounts about the world. I mean, even the failures, as I said, I was old hostage. But you certainly learn a lot from those kinds of experiences. I mean, it’s a hard way to learn. Uh, you know, divorce is a good way to learn about life. It’s not fun. I don’t recommend it, but, you know, so failures can lead to great, uh, learning experiences and even the disastrous going around the world. And there was certainly obviously plenty when you go around the world. Um, we went through war zones, epidemics, droughts, all sorts of things. Um, but you learn, and that’s exciting. As long as you survive. It’s not exciting if you wind up dead or something. But it was exciting and still is for me.

Reed Goossens (43:09):

That’s awesome, mate. I could, I could talk to you for hours and hours and hours, but I do wanna respect your time. Um, people wanna reach out to you. Where do they go?

Jim Rogers (43:17):

Well, I mean, I don’t have anything to sell . Um, I guess those books I’ve published, you find the people can buy those and read those, but I don’t, I don’t have a newsletter or something to sell to people. I don’t have a fund. I’m just a simple unemployed person. Try to survive.

Reed Goossens (43:37):

Jim, you’re more than that. And I think you’re very inspirational to many, many folks who, who listen to this podcast and, and subscribe to Financial Freedom and, and understanding the global economy. So with that being said, I wanna thank you very much for jumping on today’s show. Uh, I wanna reflect some of the things that I took away from today’s show. I think your history of just being able to be curious, you know, a a a boy from, uh, from, from from a small country town, getting out there, being curious, traveling the world in the way that you’ve traveled. And for those folks who haven’t read Jim’s stories, I definitely recommend getting, getting your hands on one of his books. But you know, everything from you get us world record that you hold to, you know, creating money on, on, on Wall Street, but then to go out and see how other people live their life.

Reed Goossens (44:17):

I’m, I I, I’m very similar to you in that way, that I like to see how other folks live and how other economies work. Um, and it’s, it’s, you know, that curiosity has probably driven you to where you are today. And you know, you have had kids in your later in your life and you’ve, you’ve had so many awesome experiences. Um, I just wanna, you know, thank you again for, for jumping on the show and, and sharing a little bit of your time, your precious time with us, uh, and, and the knowledge that you’ve bestowed upon us. But, uh, did I leave anything out? Well,

Jim Rogers (44:43):

Uh, you did mention three Guinness Quo World Records, and yes, there was fun to do the things to achieve those, but the Guinness Book of Record doesn’t pay you rent. , my, my family thought it was great, but, but re do not think the Guinness Book of World record is a way to success or prosperity. It’s fun, but, and it’s not easy to do some of those things, but you gotta keep at it. Don’t give up. Don’t give up if you’re going to be happy.

Reed Goossens (45:14):

But, but I think it’s, it’s also the, the, the testament to you wanting to be curious and go and challenging yourself. So that’s, I think that’s, that’s the thing I was getting at. But, uh, again, my friend, thank you so much for jumping on the show. Enjoy the rest of your week and we’ll catch up very, very soon.

Jim Rogers (45:29):

Well, thank you, thank you, thank you. Just be careful, you know, listen to read and be careful. , there’s gonna be some diff difficult times coming up.

Reed Goossens (45:38):

Thank you, my friend. Be well.

Jim Rogers (45:40):

Thank you. Bye-bye.

Reed Goossens (45:41):

Well, there have another cracking episode jam packed with some incredible advice from Jim Rogers, the, the Jim Rogers. So if you do, if you dunno who Jim Rogers is, Google Limp, check out all these books. He’s a world renowned investor, entrepreneur, global traveler, adventurer, uh, and he’s got so many awesome views on what’s gonna happen and what’s coming up with the debt. You know, being in such a big debtor market that we are in here, living in the US and printing a lot of money, and where we are going in in that, you know, in the next couple of years, we don’t have a crystal ball Getting a bit of Jim’s time today, 30 minutes, uh, was, was incredible. Just to hear a little bit about what he is doing and his investments and, you know, investing in hard assets. I think that’s a, that’s a, a really important lesson to take away from today’s show.

Reed Goossens (46:27):

Um, look, I wanna thank all of you to, for taking some time outta your day today to listen to Jim. It’s a, it’s a definitely a special episode that we’ve brought to you here at, uh, investing in the US podcast. We spent a lot of time trying to get Jim on the show, uh, to cultivate something for, for you guys. So hopefully you’re taking a lot away. Uh, it’s only a very short snippet of, of his time here or his snippet into his life. Uh, I do encourage you to get your hands on some of his books and to g read more about what he’s preaching. We only had, again, a short period of time with allocated with him today. Um, but definitely check him out. Uh, and I wanna thank you again all for taking some time outta your day to tune in, to continue to grow your financial iq, because that’s what we’re all about here on this show. If you do like this show, you’d, the easiest way to give back is to give it a five star review on iTunes. And we could do, do this all again next week. So remember, be bold, be brave, and go give life a crack.